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Post by bigjohn on Jun 3, 2014 21:38:10 GMT -6
tjm,those figures are about right at this time.A few years ago,the MTA had about the same number of members but less licenses were sold,which meant the represented a greater percentage.
Regs are not based on the MTA's request only.The surveys the MDC send out,which unfortunatly get a very low response back from trappers,also has bearing.Trappers are notorious for not sending back data,just look at the request from the MDC for the turning in of bobcat and otter jaws that are used to compile data.By not complying,trappers are potentionaly harming ourselves if the anti's were ever to get a referendum to stop their harvest unless scientific evedence is produced to show a healthy and thriving population.Think it can't happen,think again.It's already been done and trying to be done in other states.Trappers are many times their own worse enemy.
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Post by ozarkmountainman on Jun 4, 2014 7:24:11 GMT -6
Robert, I've stared at those figures since you brought them to my attention last year. Pretty unbelievable. And the fact that the NTA doesn't seem to mind what we think about it is amazing.
Dale
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Post by tjm on Jun 4, 2014 8:13:55 GMT -6
yep, we need to get those cat jaws turned in, I read that a large part of the Ca. issue was because they could not show a recent study. It doesn't take any effort, CO took mine when he tagged the cat.
The last trapping survey I remember getting was long ago, questions about spotted skunk sightings/take. I'm not real good about returning the deer surveys I seem to get each year, but they always remind me with a follow up; don't they follow up on the trapping surveyys?
I guess I'm surprised that small groups like MTA and NTA have any real influence, if they do. It may be that no one else speaks up. I have found that email to MDC and it's employees always gets a prompt response. Might be worth while for anyone interested in change to try that.
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Post by trkyslyr on Jun 4, 2014 8:36:53 GMT -6
Yup, emails work and they're timely and cost effective... No need to spend time and gas going to a public hearing 4 hours away when an email is SUPPOSED to get just as much attention and consideration. I have emailed MDC on numerous subjects and have always gotten a response...
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Post by ozarkmountainman on Jun 4, 2014 9:30:22 GMT -6
The main influence with the MDC has been more of a political one. It's always about politics.
Dale
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Post by pops on Jun 4, 2014 9:41:09 GMT -6
In my opinion the MDC has leaned more to the bird watcher /tree hugger type instead of the hunter / outdoorsmen in the last twenty or so years. Even though its the hunter/outdoorsman that pays the majority of the bills.
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Post by bigjohn on Jun 4, 2014 10:07:04 GMT -6
pops,that does seem to be the case on alot of things.That is the only missgivens I've ever had with the 1/8 cent tax for conservation.Before we sportsman footed almost the whole bill.That and we are the ones that remove the excess wildlife to manage said wildlife.
Most people nowdays have no idea what an important part trapping and hunting play in the scheme of wildlife management.Maybe we ought to start dropping or mangy coyotes to the local pounds and humane society facilities for rehab.Wonder how that would work out for them lol
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Post by robertw on Jun 4, 2014 15:42:16 GMT -6
The thing is those bobcat skulls are worth $10 a pc just fresh frozen.
Should the trapper sell them or donate them to the MDC? It's not like the MDC isn't over funded and couldn't pay at least something for them.
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Post by bigjohn on Jun 4, 2014 15:55:42 GMT -6
I don't know Robert,is $10 a skull worth more than missing a season or more of being able to trap bobcat or otter because some anti group was successfull in getting a halt on the season until evidence is presented proving there isn't an overharvest on those species.
You pay way more to the government to be able to make a living and they darn sure are over funded.
I cannot for the life of me understand that mindset.Here we as trappers go before the commission asking for this or that,yet we cannot help them and ourselves out?
It's like Wendt said,trappers are their own worst enemies.
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Post by robertw on Jun 4, 2014 16:09:25 GMT -6
John,
The department paid for ottee when they wanted the telemetry units back. They paid for tagged otter.
Have you ever seen Jeff Berringer come on this forum (or any trapping forum?) and answer questions and build a relationship with trappers like Dave Hamilton did?
Every trapper knows the department has the money. They have seen it wasted so many stupid projects. If this one is worth while they will pay.
Right or wrong doesn't matter.....its all about perception and relationships.
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Post by trkyslyr on Jun 4, 2014 16:17:38 GMT -6
I brought up paying for skulls to jeff at the spring meeting and he looked back like I was screwing his wife.
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Post by bigjohn on Jun 4, 2014 16:46:58 GMT -6
Robert,this site has never been friendly towards the MDC,plain and simple.That was the very reason we could never get a conservation agent on her to answer questions about regs.As soon as he did then someone would jump on him like he made the law if they didn't like the answer.Can't say I blame them for not coming on here myself.Who wants to help someone out that wants to disrespect you like that.
As far as that otter deal,your talking about a costly item and it's a shame that they had to pay for something that was already theirs.Doesn't speak highly of trappers now does it?
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Post by ozarkmountainman on Jun 4, 2014 17:03:57 GMT -6
The only agent to do much here was also abusive. He's better now.
Dale
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Post by pops on Jun 4, 2014 19:19:54 GMT -6
I don't know Robert,is $10 a skull worth more than missing a season or more of being able to trap bobcat or otter because some anti group was successfull in getting a halt on the season until evidence is presented proving there isn't an overharvest on those species. You pay way more to the government to be able to make a living and they darn sure are over funded. I cannot for the life of me understand that mindset.Here we as trappers go before the commission asking for this or that,yet we cannot help them and ourselves out? It's like Wendt said,trappers are their own worst enemies. It's my understanding they tag em........ so they do have records of how many is taken each year. So there goes your overharvest theory bigjohn. Imo the trapper should use (get) everything he can from every animal he takes. |
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Post by bigjohn on Jun 4, 2014 20:46:02 GMT -6
Correct pops,they do tag them,but the age structure can only be determined by extracting a canine tooth.
If you have no recruitment in the population(younger animals)then there is a potental of overharvest.So you see,there is more in determining the population than just tagging them.
By turning in the jaws,you and all other trappers are getting something pops.Your getting a scientific profile in place to stop any potential interruption in the otter and bobcat season,if the anti's file an injuction to stop it.This would save the trappers from having to come up with money to fight it.We would already have the data to disprove their claims and we could all go on our happy ways.
Again,I can't understand why people can't see this.Just look at Calif.They've lost alot due to not compiling data.They may lose bobcats all together.Many other states are fighting similar battles.
We are lucky to have a well funded DOC that can provide this data"IF WE TRAPPERS JUST DO OUR PART".
I hear many say they want to leave the trapping heritage to our kids.Well with the attitude of some,that heritage will just be pages in a history book or you saying to your grandkids"Yeah,we used to be able to trap".
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Post by robertw on Jun 4, 2014 23:28:38 GMT -6
Big John,
Sorry, that is a very lame excuse blaming it on this forum. Name ANY TRAPPING FORUM where Jeff Berringer has a regular dialogue answering questions to Missouri trappers?
Note, I'm not picking on him. Simply pointing out there is NO interaction or relationship between trappers and our Furbearer Biologist like we used to have with Dave Hamilton. In my opinion this is IMPORTANT.
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Post by bigjohn on Jun 5, 2014 4:48:04 GMT -6
Robert,I too would like to see more interaction with Jeff.I don't know what his workload is like and that might be a factor.I know he is on the mountain lion and bear studies as well as furbearer issues.
Dave was a great guy and a huge asset to the MDC.It was a sad day with his passing.
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Post by ozarkmountainman on Jun 5, 2014 7:44:28 GMT -6
Maybe some day we'll get a BIOLOGIST in the position.
Dale
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Post by trkyslyr on Jun 5, 2014 8:56:30 GMT -6
IF, and I highlight IF, they really wanted the scientific data, they would be getting skull/teeth from fur buyers which they currently are not doing. look at deer. they get all the scientific data they want now from deer processors and don't whine about "hunters" not turning teeth. Heck, they don't even ASK for hunters to turn in deer teeth. hitting up the fur buyers would be the easiest and most effective way of collecting teeth for the scientific data. U looked in a fur buyers freezer and seen all the carcass cats?  how many are head shot each year and the skull worthless and brought to the buyer on the carcass? ? Berringer backpedaled on this question too at the spring meeting. |
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Post by ozarkmountainman on Jun 5, 2014 10:41:08 GMT -6
No real easy answer. For years I got twenty-bucks each for my bleached skulls. I believe I was the first one to tell this to Jeff way back. He'd never heard of anything but the fur being worth money.
I should've told him about 'coon peckers!
Dale
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Goodbye 2020