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Post by trkyslyr on Jun 2, 2014 6:02:43 GMT -6
John, first off, I do recall u recently bashing the BMP's, so don't be such a hypocrite citing what they say...
second, since you wanna go the BMP method, I recall u suggesting to many to ensure they use 4 coil traps when trapping otter with footholds.... show me in the bmp where that is recommended...
just keep spewing out your mouth and trying to make yourself look smart... it aint workin....
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Post by bigjohn on Jun 2, 2014 7:45:33 GMT -6
You show me where I recommended EVER using a 4-coiled trap.I don't 4-coil any traps and see no need for it myself.
Can't recall ever bashing the BMPs either,other than wouldn't want to see them made mandatory.
As far as the conibear spikes for 110's and conibear clips for them,a muskrat can almost be killed with the word "boo".Otter and beaver aren't so easily dispatched.
We ,as trappers,should always strive to make the dispatch and capture of furbearers as humane as possible.
Don,your opinion on my comments,well really don't mean much to me.lol
It's obvious that you have aquired in your few seasons,more knowledge than those that make daily catches of more than your weekly or season catches of furbearers.You proved this when you tried to dispute Robert W's choice of cable size for CR's for coyotes.I mean,he probably cables more coyotes in a day than you've done in your whole time using them.
As far as tring to make myself look smart,well my only reason for giving any advise is to better the education of new folks.So if you don't like my advise,by all means don't take it.
IMO,you've learned alot since you first visited this site,but you've also a lot more to learn.Good luck on your endeavors.It's your kind of attitude that keep many great trappers from posting any helpfull information on this and other sites.
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Post by tjm on Jun 2, 2014 9:12:53 GMT -6
I would think that 'to the rivets' is easily understood and an obvious thing to look for. If I choose to set my trap in some manner that would expose a rivet at the "halfway" point then I would be obligated to to submerse the trap just as we have to now, nothing lost.
If we start to demand more than the MDC is willing accept and refuse to compromise, I can see no gain; for there will be no changes in regs. If we gain "to the rivets" this go 'round and show that we are not killing more domestics; then in the future we might ask for more and get it.
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Post by trkyslyr on Jun 2, 2014 11:01:50 GMT -6
I would think that 'to the rivets' is easily understood and an obvious thing to look for. If I choose to set my trap in some manner that would expose a rivet at the "halfway" point then I would be obligated to to submerse the trap just as we have to now, nothing lost. If we start to demand more than the MDC is willing accept and refuse to compromise, I can see no gain; for there will be no changes in regs. If we gain "to the rivets" this go 'round and show that we are not killing more domestics; then in the future we might ask for more and get it. Good point. |
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Post by tjm on Jun 2, 2014 12:48:19 GMT -6
halfway gives you a dimension to go by as well... HALF-WAY...... HALFWAY.... AT LEAST HALFWAY SUBMERGED... DOESN'T MEAN 1/3, OR 1/4 OR 1/8 OR 3/32 OR 1/16 NOT EVEN 3/64...... and connis will ALWAYS have the possibility of rubbing the fur in ANY situation in which u use it..... people have been using connis on poles longer than u've been alive.... so........... OK, I'll stop now.... That be true for some, but I recall when F C Taylor listed them in the catalog as "NEW"! The very first "Conibears" were field tested in 1956-57 and they did not come on the market for a few years after that. In '63-64 they were still being touted as "New"; so a few on here might not fit your statement. |
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Post by bverboy on Jun 2, 2014 13:35:13 GMT -6
1 rivet can be replaced with a spike or rod... would post a pic but cant get it to work Fixed it for ya!   thanks walleye. a trapper can use the spike method on 220 an 330's |
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Post by krank on Jun 2, 2014 13:52:43 GMT -6
All very interesting. Its hard to sell the idea to the state when we cant agree among ourselves.
Never thought about sideways conis not having as much killing concusion due to position. , I will keep that in mind on a landset.. Good point.
We are talking conis in water so the critter should drown. I got those 110s with a gutter spike in place of a rivet and never seen a live rat in one. But back up, we are wanting to set in shallow water....Hmmm.....A sideways 330 in 10 inches of water would need a drowner heading out to deeper water.
The old 1972 victor catalogue showed conis in all positions as a selling point.
Let me further stir the pot, I can see them allowing partially submerged on private land and sticking to fully submerged on public land.
My reason for wanting change is that I don't want to get a ticket for a tiny bit of my coni sticking out of the water. I see them considering "majority" or "3/4" before they go for halfway or "to the rivets".
We are lucky we don't have to comply with trigger rules like NY. They tell you what shape the triggers have to be in or else.
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Post by bigjohn on Jun 2, 2014 15:01:59 GMT -6
Mike,I like your wording of majority underwater.Staying legal is my main point of wanting the regs to change.
With a year of little water,some of the creeks didn't have enough water to even keep a 220 submerged without damming it up or digging it deeper.I passed many a place this last year because I didn't think I could follow the letter of the law.
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Post by tjm on Jun 2, 2014 15:29:45 GMT -6
I believe that some said the MDC wanted a clear dimension (easy to observe, I imagine) so any vague term like mostly, partially or halfway or somewhat or the majority of is very likly not going to get approval. They have asked for something definative. Hinge points submerged or no more than 3" exposed or something of that nature.
I really don't think my hound is very likly to get caught in a 220 that 1/3 submerged, the coon that left the track he's following would hit the trap first. More likly to get in a fully submerged trap at a beaver den where the coon has gone in. But it's not me that has to be pleased. If I had the duty of enforcment, I'd want total submersion or hinge points, something that would show in a photo. Easy to see and hard to argue. I doubt that the agents care much about it except from the stand point of convictions and/or arguements.
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Post by bverboy on Jun 2, 2014 17:45:23 GMT -6
I know 1 thing. stabilizers are made to hold bg's sideways.... yep
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Post by krank on Jun 2, 2014 20:05:17 GMT -6
The majority just makes sense. If the water is over the rivets then thats the majoity. Spring up has to have over half the jaws under water. You cant argue with a CA over majority. THats anything more than half. A guy needs to approach the MDOC with low sights as "No" is in their vocabulary.
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Post by ozarkmountainman on Aug 4, 2014 14:42:42 GMT -6
Rules & Regs meeting today- The MDC is basically going to poll parties with an interest in this subject, namely the dog (hound) folks. We're probably screwed.
Dale
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Post by bverboy on Aug 4, 2014 15:05:51 GMT -6
if that's the case, why take a poll???
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Post by robertw on Aug 4, 2014 15:53:07 GMT -6
Basically to survey the "stake holders".
Something similar happend 6-8 years ago and it died in committee.
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Post by robertw on Aug 5, 2014 10:40:54 GMT -6
Clay,
I appreciate your trying to get this changed.
Whether ypu succeede or not, at least you tried.
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Post by ozarkmountainman on Aug 5, 2014 12:24:34 GMT -6
Same for me, Clay.
Dale
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Post by trkyslyr on Aug 5, 2014 13:59:15 GMT -6
Same here.
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Post by ccreech on Aug 5, 2014 15:09:43 GMT -6
Thanks.
I think we have a really good shot at this. A committee within MDC has been formed with reps from Wildlife, Research, and Protection Divisions. It's my understanding that a meeting will be held between the various dog groups, the MTA, and MDC in the next few months. Nothing negative came out of the regs meeting yesterday. We had the blessing of the Mo. Sporting Dog Assoc. in 2010. Hopefully they will not have a problem with it again. Keep your fingers crossed as we work our way through the process.
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Post by tcrooks on Aug 5, 2014 18:48:08 GMT -6
Sweet , Thanks Clay and keep us all informed asap.
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Post by ozarkmountainman on Aug 5, 2014 19:18:42 GMT -6
Yep- we love good intel. Thanks again.
Dale
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Goodbye 2020