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Post by ozarkmountainman on May 28, 2014 8:48:58 GMT -6
In all fairness I haven't talked to Kenny Wells where the MTA/MDC status is on this. Kenny promised me last September he would address the issue better than had been done in the past (wouldn't take much). Anyone know where we're at?
More specifically this is to make it legal to set BG's partially submerged, rivet-height being the goal. Discussion?
Dale
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Post by pops on May 28, 2014 10:01:40 GMT -6
All for it Dale. IMO if the rivets are submerged it should be considered a submerged trap.
While we're at lets get it so we can use 160's on land too.
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Post by bigjohn on May 28, 2014 10:56:45 GMT -6
Dale,it has been brought up and discussed.One agent blew the whole thing last year and as Clay Creech stated,"he doesn't know anymore about trapping than atomic energy. At the spring meeting,Jeff berringer stated that it might be better to attack it from the enforcement point of view. So this is the new tactic that is going to be tried and may have very well been put into the works (haven't talked to Clay in a couple of weeks.So yes it has been and is being worked on.
pops,I don't ever foresee the 160s being allowed on dry land. The loss of the 220,due to indiscrimate placing of some,has pretty much killed that issue with the MDC.Even though as Robert W stated,I've never heard of any dog issues in states that allow them.
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Post by krank on May 28, 2014 13:57:29 GMT -6
I think Robert posted once that studies showed the 160s were about the same as 155s in being a threat to dogs. It was the 220s that gave bodygrips a bad name.
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Post by ozarkmountainman on May 28, 2014 14:07:13 GMT -6
The whole bodygrip issue has been put on the back burner for too long. Partially-submerged traps just make sense all around, especially from the enforcement standpoint.
Dale
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Post by bigjohn on May 28, 2014 15:27:10 GMT -6
Rick worked on this when he was on the rules and regulation committee.The only backburner is the MDC dragging their feet on this deal.With the trap in water to the rivet,the biggest opening ,above water,that one would have would be 5 1/2 inches and this is with the true 10 x 10 opening BGs. We all know that no dog is going to stick it's head partly underwater and get catch.What measurements dictate 1/2 submerged was one of the things the MDC argued.Jeff Berringer has argued the point for us also.
Most of the resistances on regulations is fueled by those few that would try to push the limits.Things like setting CRs to take coon(dropping the noose size to 5 or less inches from the ground),using CRs to take coyotes,fox,and bobcat after regular season for fur instead of the intended live catch for pens.
With the rule of partially submerged BGs,one would still have to be diligent to insure compliance just as we have to with completly submerged.
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Post by ozarkmountainman on May 28, 2014 15:33:04 GMT -6
Rick DID NOT work on it, at least not the last year or two. The NTA took all his time. You have to be, and stay, diligent when you're pursuing things like this.
Dale
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Post by bigbob on May 28, 2014 15:58:49 GMT -6
I like the rivet idea, however, I've had Beagles that would stick their heads under water to try and track a Rabbit, And did it too! Pretty funny to hear them bark the line though.
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Post by trkyslyr on May 28, 2014 18:29:56 GMT -6
what if ur using ur conni's on a stick? or need to have it set sideways? rivet rule wont work... what's wrong with saying "Half way"?
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Post by ozarkmountainman on May 28, 2014 18:37:20 GMT -6
Halfway is halfway. Rivets give you a dimension to go by.
Dale
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Post by trkyslyr on May 30, 2014 11:24:21 GMT -6
I like the rivet idea, however, I've had Beagles that would stick their heads under water to try and track a Rabbit, And did it too! Pretty funny to hear them bark the line though. u cant be serious  |
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Post by bigbob on May 30, 2014 15:18:56 GMT -6
Yep, Silliest hound I ever had.
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Post by krank on May 30, 2014 15:43:20 GMT -6
I have had coon dogs battle coon that where holed up in a sunken brushpile.
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Post by ozarkmountainman on May 30, 2014 16:31:48 GMT -6
Anything can happen with what we do. I've held deer in footholds that could have pulled out any time they wanted. How about a tongue-caught whitetail in a DP? Not good, but stuff happens.
95% of the BG's I set will not catch a dog unless he's traveling up or down a waterway. I RARELY set them on trails leading in and out of the water, like where a hunting dog would be. Even then, a dog entering the water that way can get caught by my fully-submerged BG. But it's never happened.
Dale
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Post by login on May 30, 2014 19:08:21 GMT -6
Anything can happen with what we do. I've held deer in footholds that could have pulled out any time they wanted. How about a tongue-caught whitetail in a DP? Not good, but stuff happens. 95% of the BG's I set will not catch a dog unless he's traveling up or down a waterway. I RARELY set them on trails leading in and out of the water, like where a hunting dog would be. Even then, a dog entering the water that way can get caught by my fully-submerged BG. But it's never happened. Dale I think that is called "trapping ethics". Altho a set that is made might be legal, it doesnt always mean that it is ethical. You can teach the rules and regs on trappin, but beeing ethical about it is the key. Some dont know what that word means. |
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Post by bigjohn on May 30, 2014 20:52:47 GMT -6
Tongue caught deer in a DP ,really? Good thing you didn't have it baited with doe-in-heat urine then.Wouldn't be pretty.
100 percent of my BG wont and don't catch dogs anywhere I set them,as long as they are in the water.
Same reason my cable restraints don't catch deer. Use of dive poles,jump sticks,and other previsions see to that.
Rod,I truly think most of our regs are aimed at those with less than good ethics.It is the ethicial trappers that suffer and your right,some don't know the meaning of the word.
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Post by ozarkmountainman on May 31, 2014 7:51:55 GMT -6
Wasn't my DP, but the point is STUFF happens. Can't cover all the bases. Unless we just quit.
Dale
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Post by bigjohn on May 31, 2014 15:14:13 GMT -6
what if ur using ur conni's on a stick? or need to have it set sideways? rivet rule wont work... what's wrong with saying "Half way"? Like Dale said,the rivets give you a dimention to go by. Setting a BG sideways should never be done except for an under ice situation or where the BG is anchored in such a way to not allow the trapped animal to reach the surface.The BG was designed to strike the animal in such a ways to render it dead or unconscious when struck across the neck.Using it sideways doesn't do this.Instead the animal is very much alive and conscious,thus suffer needlessly.This would also result in a certain amount of rubbing and cause damage to the pelt. |
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Post by bverboy on May 31, 2014 15:30:33 GMT -6
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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Post by trkyslyr on May 31, 2014 15:58:34 GMT -6
halfway gives you a dimension to go by as well... HALF-WAY...... HALFWAY.... AT LEAST HALFWAY SUBMERGED... DOESN'T MEAN 1/3, OR 1/4 OR 1/8 OR 3/32 OR 1/16 NOT EVEN 3/64...... and connis will ALWAYS have the possibility of rubbing the fur in ANY situation in which u use it.....
people have been using connis on poles longer than u've been alive.... so...........
OK, I'll stop now....
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Goodbye 2020