Cable restraint class

[tryinhard]

If anyone hears of one, please post & let me know. Seeing all the trails with this snow, I need to be setting them as well as footholds!

[krank]

Are they doing away with the training requirement? I really hope they don't but I heard some one say they were.

[trapperw3]

it's not required to have the training any longer according to Clay Creech

[krank]

I kind of think a guy needs training on CRs. Let the public hang them wherever and they will get a bad name fast.

[trapperw3]

I agree with you but the MDC said we didn't need the training

[krank]

My fear is that dummies hang cables in fences and catch dogs and leave CRs for farmers to hit with mower. Hopefully I am wrong.

[bigjohn]

I wasn't sure Paul. I know the MDC wanted the MTA's input but couldn't remember if the MDC went ahead with getting rid of it.

Mike dummies are going to do what dummies do regardless.

[tryinhard]

So, my licence says not cable restraint certified. Is that going to change next year?

[tjm]

huntfish.mdc.mo.gov/sites/default/files/downloads/4157_6377.pdf

I know a couple of the instructors said not many sign up and I guess it cost money to schedule classes and for space used. Since it began as a live catch deal and they want to phase out pens, the CRs may go when the pens go. Remember that they were only used late season for fox and coyote?
In the past if you contacted the local office they would either put on a class or tell you where one was scheduled. They were always AUG-OCt, so none right away. But by trapping season MTA should sponsor a couple and you could sign up for the MDC trapping school at Talbot CA that runs every year.

Ask MDC
Southwest Regional Office
2630 N Mayfair
Springfield , MO 65803
Email address: [e-mail] (link sends e-mail)
Phone: [phone]

[bigjohn]

Not sure where you get the idea they want to phase out running pens Travis. Who is the they? There is a young fella north of me that did over 200 live coyotes last year. He also collects the urine and sells to one of the major urine suppliers. He has no trouble getting rid of them.

[pops]

Jan 21, 2019 18:47:01 GMT -6 tjm said:

huntfish.mdc.mo.gov/sites/default/files/downloads/4157_6377.pdf

I know a couple of the instructors said not many sign up and I guess it cost money to schedule classes and for space used. Since it began as a live catch deal and they want to phase out pens, the CRs may go when the pens go. Remember that they were only used late season for fox and coyote?
In the past if you contacted the local office they would either put on a class or tell you where one was scheduled. They were always AUG-OCt, so none right away. But by trapping season MTA should sponsor a couple and you could sign up for the MDC trapping school at Talbot CA that runs every year.

Ask MDC
Southwest Regional Office
2630 N Mayfair
Springfield , MO 65803
Email address: [e-mail] (link sends e-mail)
Phone: [phone]

CR's are a legal means of trapping  all season, not just late season, and when I became an instructor I wasn't told I could only hold classes Aug thru Oct. For that matter, I took my CR class in Feb. at the Laurie clinic so don't know where you are getting your info, but they sure are blowing smoke where it don't belong.

[tjm]

Jan 21, 2019 21:19:31 GMT -6 pops said:

Jan 21, 2019 18:47:01 GMT -6 tjm said:

huntfish.mdc.mo.gov/sites/default/files/downloads/4157_6377.pdf
.....
Springfield , MO 65803
Email address: [e-mail] (link sends e-mail)
Phone: [phone]

CR's are a legal means of trapping  all season, not just late season, and when I became an instructor I wasn't told I could only hold classes Aug thru Oct. For that matter, I took my CR class in Feb. at the Laurie clinic so don't know where you are getting your info, but they sure are blowing smoke where it don't belong.

Say, what kind smoke you been havin? or don't you read well, or ... ?

No where did I mention you or Laurie or a requirement that the class be held at any given time. Is the Laurie Clinic an MDC function?
MDC classes are normally held in those months if at all. Yes the season has broadened, in the last several years, but in the same way we got CRs we can lose them or part of the use of them. MDC regulations change each and every year, but as a trapping instructor you know that?
Were you giving classes or even taking the class, when they first authorized CRs in MO?
As a instructor you can give the OP a class today or any other day. So get with it. No BS just do it. Instruction can be one on one.

[tjm]

Jan 21, 2019 20:24:24 GMT -6 bigjohn said:

Not sure where you get the idea they want to phase out running pens Travis. Who is the they? There is a young fella north of me that did over 200 live coyotes last year. He also collects the urine and sells to one of the major urine suppliers. He has no trouble getting rid of them.

John, maybe they don't now intend to plase pens out, but several years ago MDC said no more new pen permits would be issued and that as the current operators quit or die, eventually attrition would eliminate the running pens.
Has MDC issued any new pen permits recently? Do you know of any new pen operators?

However, MDC regulations change every year and the people that make up MDC change every year, so it is impossible to predict what the future attitude towards trapping will be. MDC being divided into three more or less independent divisions in the field and essentially a fourth division in support in J.City has many more people that just the wild life division- many of whom are anti trapping, or non-supportive of trapping. For example I've met several forestry people that did not like trapping and only a few enforcement types that were trappers or supported trapping as a management tool. At some point it may well be that more anti trappers will be in MDC than trapping supporters. Look at how the number of fur dealers has declined as the old guys die.

What permits does he use to keep the coyotes for urine collection? The pen sizes (80sqft + 25sqft for each add)required in the regulations I read would make collection rather difficult. Or changing the donors every 72 hours under trapping permit?

Oh, the "they" was meant to be MDC, but really it is anyone not actively supporting, using or supplying the running pens. Most of the members of this board won't be able to name three running pens in the entire state, I only know of two and I'm not sure they are still open.

Loosening of the CR regs can be taken two ways, eventual intent to turn them into full function snares under the general category of traps, or the intent of letting the CRs slip out of the spotlight into oblivion. In a few years the all the old guys that worked to get CRs in Mo will have quit or passed on.
I'm not saying that MDC wants to end CR use, just pointing out the possibility. MDC seems to be withdrawing interest in them, evidenced by lack of classes given. I'm not sure our current Furbearer Biologist has any interest other than bears?

[bigjohn]

The trouble with CR classes were that they were limited number and locations held each year. Most folks never thought of the class until too late or didn't want to travel any distance to get it, not much different than when hunter safety became mandatory.

The MDC regularly inspects holding pens of Darrin's so I assume he is following all guidelines. Catching, holding, and marketing over 200 head of live coyotes would be a bigger chore than most would want to take on. If you have a hankering to try it the MDC will gladly give you a list of pen owns in Mo., since we can't export live ones.

Most of the folks I know here that use them do so as a fur harvesting tool. I myself have taken 2 bobcat, a red fox, couple possums, a skunk, and a couple of coon in them just since the first of the year. In this wet a$$ season it made it easier to keep going without too much work.

As far as our current furbearer biologist, Laura Conley, is a great gal and a friend to the MTA and Mo. trappers. They still have the ongoing data collection from otter and bobcat jaws. They also are collecting information on the badger and civet thru sightings of persons of the outdoors. The fact that the MTA were able to get 48 hour drowning checks and snares 1/2 submerged shows the MDC understands any tool that trappers need to help manage furbearers should be allowed.

As far as older trappers, we will still be putting up fur when most these youngsters are sitting on their butts.

[tryinhard]

Sorry about creating a bitchfest but I went to the MDC website & they still list a cable restraint manual & class. I would assume that when the new wildlife code comes out in March if it's still in it, I'll take the course. Thanks for the help guys.

[krank]

I enjoyed my course. It was the old course that took all day. Got to meet with other trappers in my region and I learned something.

[bigjohn]

I'll agree Mike. I took the first course that was offered in our county. Most of it is common sense and some people just don't possess it. Some don't care what the law says either and are going to dumb stuff anyway.

[krank]

At least with a mandatory class (or at least a test) then they can not plead ignorance as a defense.
Its really time in history for trappers to take a hard look at public opinion.
Old Grumpy would have a fit when people posted something on here that an anti could cut and paste and publish else where and blow out of context.
A test. There is the compromise. The MDOC could send an applicant a pamphlet and a test for them to fill out. Would cost a little money but not as much as school. If applicant abused CR usage then state has a record that applicant was aware of the rules.

[tomolson]

I don't know how many times at the Mo. convention,I had to keep guys from buying my snares,when it was cable restraints they needed.I had to explain everything to them and switch them over to restraints.So many of them didn't have a clue as to what was right or wrong.
Tom

[krank]

People even hang baling wire. I think if they turn the public loose with CRs then there could be trouble. Blame would go to MDOC but the trappers will suffer.