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Post by kmiller on Jan 7, 2015 7:17:20 GMT -6
What type of locks are you guys using... mainly, I will be targeting beaver and coyotes... I will probably just go with regular 3/32.... I have been looking at the cam locks and they look pretty good... I have never used the larger diameter cable for my snares in Ks. except on my fence snares that were built especially for under five strand crossings...
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Post by ozarkmountainman on Jan 7, 2015 8:15:10 GMT -6
Relax-A-Lock mostly, and when I use CR's that are set exclusively for coyote, I use 1X19 cable.
D.W. Verts- Bigfoot Trapper
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Post by tomolson on Jan 7, 2015 8:33:25 GMT -6
Most of the snares and restraints I make--I use 3/32 and micro locks.
For Wisconsin and Manitoba,its the 180 degree reverse bend washer lock.Though I do have some Mo. customers that also request the washer lock.
Those who must use restraints,cannot use cams.
Tom
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Post by coonsnagger on Jan 7, 2015 16:14:09 GMT -6
Are cr's effective for beaver? I've gotten 1 in a snare. But that's about the extent of learning that headache...
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Post by kmiller on Jan 7, 2015 16:46:14 GMT -6
I personally snare more beaver on ADC than in conis... lots of clear water around and they really shy off of the conis with any amount of experience...
on the above post... my interpretation is that "mechanical lock" would include cams
thanks
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Post by bigjohn on Jan 7, 2015 16:58:38 GMT -6
The cam-locks on snares is fine, as snares have to be completely submerged.
CR's require a relaxing lock.
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Post by robertw on Jan 7, 2015 18:37:36 GMT -6
Camlocks are legal on cable restraints in Missouri.
I wrote the regulation that was adopted by the MDC for Dave Hamilton.
Camlocks actually fail or slip more on some types of cable than aggressive hole type locks. This was repeatedly proven at the USDA testing facility in Colorado years ago while trying to kill coyotes in extensive testing.
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Post by robertw on Jan 7, 2015 18:39:03 GMT -6
Any lock equipped with a kill / choke spring is illegal.
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Post by kmiller on Jan 7, 2015 20:06:17 GMT -6
robert.. so cams are "OK"
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Post by bigjohn on Jan 7, 2015 20:14:17 GMT -6
Robert you gonna pay for a guy's day in court if he gets a ticket for using a cam lock on a CR?
The regs read " a relaxing type lock ".
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Post by vikesbull on Jan 7, 2015 21:19:16 GMT -6
Robert is correct, cams ok. Relaxing lock is defined further in the guide mdc.mo.gov/sites/default/files/resources/2010/04/4157_6377.pdf Page 10 Missouri regulations state that cable restraints must be
equipped with a relaxing-type sliding lock, which stops exerting
pressure when an animal quits pulling on it. This pretty much covers any lock ... |
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Post by robertw on Jan 7, 2015 22:26:17 GMT -6
Bigjohn,
Do you understand that the term relaxing lockn is an oximoron and it can not lock and still relax? You will find the smaller micro and mini locks are in may instances more aggressive than any can lock.
You will also note that locks react differently depending on the braid of cable used.
Ideally the trappers should be using the 1x19 cable with a slicker, smoother texture that allows the lock to more easily fail. However thanks to the messed up recommendations from Wisconsin I had to physically demonstrate how the 1x19 was superior to the recommended 7x7 and 7x19 (coyote eats through it like a hot knife through butter!).
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Post by robertw on Jan 7, 2015 22:30:44 GMT -6
Vikesbull,
That is the definition I wrote and was adopted and approved by the MDC.
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Post by MadDog on Jan 8, 2015 6:04:00 GMT -6
Robert
On your Missouri cable restraints do you use 3/32 or 5/64?
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Post by robertw on Jan 8, 2015 8:46:47 GMT -6
Almost all 5/64 in a 1x19. Cable diameter is another critical factor in how these locks function.
With coyotes you will find the 1x19 in a 5/64" superior to 7x7 in a 3/32" and almost equal to 1/8" in a 7x7 for not twisting out of and being more chew resistant.
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Post by ozarkmountainman on Jan 8, 2015 8:48:27 GMT -6
I'll tell you guys, if you use 1X19 3/32 cable you'll hold more coyotes. For me 5/64 is my 'cat cable (what little I do) but it holds coyotes well. Add an additional swivel and you'll hold ALL the coyotes.
And Robert Waddell wrote the BLEEP thing (with a little help). Dave Hamilton and the MDC approved it. Robert knows.
D.W. Verts- Bigfoot Trapper
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Post by robertw on Jan 8, 2015 9:01:03 GMT -6
In the last ten years I have snared at least 200+ dogs. All out of state with less restrictions and precautions than we have. All were alive and in good shape when found.(MANY are feral / wild).
Unless the regulations in Missouri are violated cable restraints with no entanglement or hanging situations are safe.
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Post by bigjohn on Jan 8, 2015 12:02:06 GMT -6
Robert, the cam lock isn't marketed as a relaxing lock. This point would be hard to fight in court if an agent wanted to push the issue.
I'll agree that no dog is going to expire in a no tangle situation, but the regs clearly state "a relaxing lock".
So again,you going to pay for a guys day in court?
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Post by ozarkmountainman on Jan 8, 2015 12:35:54 GMT -6
I would seriously doubt that anyone is going to be pinned down for a lock issue unless they're doing something else wrong and illegal.
D.W. Verts- Bigfoot Trapper
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Post by ozarkmountainman on Jan 8, 2015 12:40:41 GMT -6
I've sold locks that are advertised as "true relaxing locks". What's to differentiate them from a "standard relaxing lock"? Unless a trapper is using a lock that is advertised as a "locking" device, or possibly a "true locking" device", who's gonna fight it? Way too much nit-picking here. Keep 'em away from the fences and entanglements, and don't set 'em on the ROW's (which I see as the biggest problem with cable) and it's hard to get in trouble. Right?
Heck- while we're at it, let's take one cable from EVERY trapper, and check the BAD. Let's do that.
D.W. Verts- Bigfoot Trapper
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Goodbye 2020