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Post by bigjohn on Jan 8, 2015 13:10:51 GMT -6
Why check the BAD? Mo now has the right to use the 350 lb which is the highest rated there is if I'm not mistaken. If one was sold that had a 1000 lb rating,then I could see a conflict.
BTW,cam locks are sold as a positive locking devise. Don't believe me, go to one of the websites that advertise them.
Finding out after the fact could be costly. Hence my question to Robert, you gonna pay for a guys day in court?
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Post by tjm on Jan 8, 2015 13:10:56 GMT -6
Had some S hooks in the shop that package rated at 140# that I bet would hold 600#, hardware store stuff.
I'm not at all familiar with Camlocks, do they continue to tighten after the animal stops pulling?
I know when I read that definition that Vikes quoted I thought it covered all but spring activated locks.
Only CRs I own are bent washer type and I have found few places to use them in the woods without spending an excessive amount time prepping the site as to rid it of entanglement.
If a lock was advertised as non-relaxing, it would mean more than simply not saying that it is relaxing.
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Post by tjm on Jan 8, 2015 13:45:37 GMT -6
John, Here's what I found;
PCS
Cam Loc Snare Locks for 3/32" cable. The most humane lock available, this lock may be reused time and again.
Northern Trapping
Snare Lock Fast Action
Snare Shop
This is a very aggressive reusable lock, and it is a non relaxing lock.
Available in 1/16", 5/64" - 3/32" and 1/8".
If you are wanting a break away with this lock; s-hooks work best.
A release ferrule will work with all locks!
MTP
Unlike most locks, the cam lock can be used over and over. Plated, won’t slip.
F&T
The Cam Lock is a fast, reusable snare lock that won't slip. Please be sure to specify the correct size from the pull-down menu when ordering as these snare locks come cable size specific.
Snareone
Cam Lock
A fast, reusable snare lock that doesn't slip.
So the Snare Shop says it is non relaxing, others say just that it won't slip. Makes it a bit confusing.
Our definition of relaxing is simply that it stops tightening when animal stops pulling, nothing about slipping. Though slippage might be inferred from the term relaxing, it isn't in the definition.
This issue has me curios because once upon a time a MDC employee who traps with CRs had told me camlocks were legal but he preferred micro locks.
Wonder if Snare Shop is using Wi. or Pa. definition of relaxing.
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Post by robertw on Jan 8, 2015 14:51:07 GMT -6
BigJohn,
Read the legal definition of what s relaxing lock is in Missouri.
As for advertisements, you believe all the crap you read in a supply catalog???
The BADS limit was raised to that limit to allow use of year away locks like the Gregerson and not need a second BADS.
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Post by robertw on Jan 8, 2015 14:54:41 GMT -6
This issue was covered extensively when we taught the Cable Restraint Class Instructors.
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Post by robertw on Jan 8, 2015 14:58:38 GMT -6
What I don't get is why is this suddenly a problem? It hasn't been a problem here. It isn't a problem in any adjoining state that allows snaring.
We have been using them for what?? 8 or ten years now?
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Post by robertw on Jan 8, 2015 15:49:34 GMT -6
I would also like to point out it was our intent to not make ANY lock illegal or hamper in any way the development of new locks and related live restraining devices with the wording of these regulations and definitions.
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Post by tjm on Jan 8, 2015 16:17:28 GMT -6
Robert, we've had this or similar discussion on here before, I think. That's why I asked that MDC trapper about it a year or two ago. Just something that comes up regularly I think.
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Post by robertw on Jan 8, 2015 18:04:05 GMT -6
Tjm,
Yep. Every year!
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Post by ozarkmountainman on Jan 8, 2015 19:07:58 GMT -6
Point is- how do you KNOW where your BAD fails? Have you checked one? Does every manufacturer install theirs properly/the same? You can go on and on. Nitpicking. I've built a ton of CR's with different BADS, and I couldn't guarantee a darn thing.
D.W. Verts- Bigfoot Trapper
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Post by robertw on Jan 8, 2015 19:17:23 GMT -6
Truth is the BADS needs to be dropped. We don't need them here. It is illegal to set around livestock anyway so just a redundancy we got stuck with.
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Post by tjm on Jan 8, 2015 19:44:31 GMT -6
I find it peculiar that in some states lethal snares are the only legal snares and others only non lethal snares can be used. NJ lethal snares are legal and you can not even own a foothold. Must all be based on science, I guess.
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Post by robertw on Jan 8, 2015 21:29:05 GMT -6
Very little good science in alot of regulations across the US.
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Goodbye 2020