MTA rondy

[bigjohn]

At our clinics we generally have a full house. Folks wanting to learn for various reasons with making money on the bottom of the list.

One of the reason for the interest in extending seasons has to do with different groups wanting a way to damage control. As it stands now, if you want to control the number of predators on your hunting property, it has to be done during the season. Not exactly the best time. You can control their numbers out of the season if the are doing damage to your property but wildlife isn't YOUR property.

[bigjohn]

Sept 21, 2021 20:49:23 GMT -6 tjm said:

Are there any thoughts in the MTA community about new country buyers, what it'd take to interest and train younger guys? It looks to me like it's going to be hard to get kids involved in trapping if the nearest buyer is three hours away.
Any discussion about developing alternative markets?
[/quote

One of the reasons the MTA has a furbearer auction. To give our members a chance with multipule buyers. Some years we actually lose money hosting this.

[segsarge]

Higher fur prices bring out more trappers into the field. It's always been that way, back to the days of the mountain men. When prices bottom out (such as now) fewer are showing any interest. For the fur industry to survive, as well as the art of trapping, prices have to increase over what they are now. Holds true for the whole country, not just MO.
Damage control is a necessary thing. But unless you're just concerned with your own property, it's costing you money to do it. I'm not counting the trappers who do this for a fee. If you are being paid for your skills then it's a different story. Or some form of compensation such as hunting/fishing permission in return. Getting your foot in the door to different areas is always a good thing.
I completely understand the wildlife management need. But I can't afford to do it for free. That was the reason I stopped taking calls from a MDC agent in the next county. I'm not looking to try to make a ton of money (though it would be nice) but I can't operate at a loss either. People call MDC and complain they have a damage problem, they expect them to take care of it. They didn't invite the problem in. MDC doesn't have the money to employ full time trappers (so they say). So they call trappers (like me) to solve the problem. The person with the problem doesn't expect to pay anything because they called the agent to solve it. They feel that's the agent's job, to fix it. Once the agent contacts me they think they have done their part. Unless I get a call to remove animals during the open season, I can't legally use any part of it. And, more often than not, the call comes out of season. Even if the season were extended, the fur isn't prime and it's not able to be sold at auction.
For those who need to learn to trap (correctly) to manage wildlife on their property, the classes and seminars are a good thing. It's a skill necessary to being a land owner. But the overall industry can't survive on just that. Trap manufacturers and supply houses can't stay in business. Without them we are in a tough situation.
Fur prices run in cycles, everyone who traps knows this. Prices are low now and have been for a long time. They'll improve at some point, how much remains to be seen. Trap prices recently had a increase again. Supplies and other equipment too. Not good news for those just showing interest in trapping.
I don't have an answer for all this. And this is just from an economic point of view. Things like heritage, history and love of trapping are vital to me or I wouldn't bother to trap. It need to be taught to newcomers. Again, this is why education is important for beginners. However, for everything to continue there has to be an improvement in prices.

[krank]

Even if fur was worth nothing, I suppose we would still trap. Last year was mostly ADC stuff. I meet a lot of landowners because I have traps.
Yeah it would be hard to charge for ADC work. I have heard professionals charge $150 to set up and $50 each after the second critter. Customers balk at that but how much does it cost to bring assets on site and provide a professional service. I tell people that turn me down but still want a solution to get a chair and a shotgun and wait it out.

[bigjohn]

I charge $150 set up and $50 a beaver, even the 1st one. I don't argue or dicker with them. I don't need the ground, the experience, or the headache. I also charge a little more if someone was there before me.

They don't have joe blow off the street handle their plumbing or electrical issues so why get someone unskilled to take care of a damage issue. It could cost quite a bit more damage if waiting too long.

[segsarge]

I've seen some really jacked up situations with people attempting to take care of damage causing critters on their own. I'm sure others have too. When I do a control job for someone I make it a point to tell them "yes I'll take care of your problem, but you realize they'll be back." " Maybe not tomorrow, but they'll be back." I advise them that they need to have someone trap their property each year. If it's me that's fine, don't want me to do it, that's fine too. But somebody needs to keep things in check.
I have a couple that contacted me a few months ago regarding beaver damaging their pond bank. They're understanding regarding trapping season and patiently waiting until then for me to take care of it. They're first on my list.

[krank]

I have had people call me on bee trouble. You get there and they sprayed RAID all over the place and tried to burn them out. Great. Ruined honey and comb and mad bees.

There was a guy on here that lived up North and was a horn hunter (I think that was his name). He had a predator line on public ground and there was a guy following him. He talked to the guy and he said that he was going to shoot all of his catches as a favor. With a deer rifle I might add. Horn man said not to dare do that and the nut job just stared off into space and said it's okay. Next day the guy was following again. Horn guy pulled his line. That was like ten years ago.

I have had traps fifty miles away and let the landowner check the line and call me if he saw anything.

[segsarge]

Got called to place where the owner poured 5 gallons of gasoline on top of a beaver lodge and lit it. It blew up and the guy got thrown back in the water. Later he tore out the dam, beaver went 20 yards downstream and built another. Then he called me. The beaver had moved out of the lodge and into a bank den in the creek. One weekend the owner hired a bulldozer to come in and clear the new dam out. I had two 330's set in crossovers on it and they got mangled in the process. Pulled my traps and told the guy he was on his own.

[bigbob]

LOL

[Flying Trapper]

Big John, I charge the same, $150 set up and $50/beaver and $25/rat. Over 20 miles from my house and you pay an additional $5/mile. Add it to the setup fee on the estimate, I don't list it separately.
HOA are $400 and $100/animal and everything dies, no relocation. I don't have time to mess with Betty the know it all environmentalists!!!

[bigjohn]

It's funny how these "I don't want to hurt the animal" type people turn into "kill them all" when animals go on to cause property damage. lol

[Flying Trapper]

Isn't that the truth!!

[tjm]

Sept 22, 2021 6:58:26 GMT -6 bigjohn said:

One of the reasons the MTA has a furbearer auction. To give our members a chance with multipule buyers. Some years we actually lose money hosting this.

I'm sure that works well for the kid on the bicycle 300 miles from MTA headquarters. I could never afford to take fur there myself, travel cost plus a couple motel nights would eat a fur check fast. If you want future trappers there needs to be at least one buyer in every county.
But if there is no international market, it won't matter. Fur trapping is a dead end without retail markets.
Kids won't be into ADC trapping because they can't be bonded and insured.
People attending a clinic don't really mean they are going to buy gear and set traps.

[bigjohn]

Even if persons attending our clinics never set a trap after at least they were educated on the need for traps and trapping as management tools. That is a big win right off the bat.

The isn't much more the association can do to generate more markets. We do show how to process the fur and give pointers to those wanting to preserve their fur for display .

[tjm]

Educating people that attend a trapping clinic on the need for traps seems like preaching to the choir, they obviously weren't opposed to trapping or they would not have been there.
Of course the club can't create retail markets, but it could devise a training course specific to country buyers and put pressure on MDC to do the same.
Fur handling is key to the trapper and a part of buying, but, grades, colors, density and sections are just as important, perhaps.

Thing is all this needs to be local to the kids wherever they are who can become the next generation of trappers,and that can't happen in Montgomery, it depends on being in every town.
I see all emphasis for the last many years being put on preservation of the old men and our ways rather than any thought to proactively preparing for the future.
Rather than worrying about "not losing this or that" the emphasis could be on "how can we get this or that."
I'm not picking on MTA and I guess they do just what the NTA tells them to, I'm just saying that in my view they are losing because they want to stand still. Just thoughts.

[segsarge]

The lack of more local auctions hurts us all. Unfortunately, the current events in the world have the market almost dead. Buyers at auctions are selling to the markets in Canada, Always have. They have to buy at a price that they can turn a profit once it gets up there. I'm OK with that, because, after all it's a business. Until Canada relaxes their travel ban things are going to stay the way they are or maybe get worse. All the auctions up there right now are being done on line. Overseas buyers are expected to purchase fur they can't physically put their hands on. Nobody is going to pay top money when the product isn't available to be seen in person.
Fur is bringing such low prices that people who were local buyers can't risk financial ruin buying goods that may not be able to be sold at all. Who can blame them? Having said all this, having only one auction in the state keeps a lot of would be trappers at home. One of the reasons I left MTA years ago was allegations of price setting on fur. At the time, there was an auction held in Fredericktown at the Hwy Patrol building every year. This was in the early 1990's. Prices were horrible. Rats were bringing 25 cents and coon were $5 tops. There were closed door meetings between buyers and district directors. As soon as a lot of fur hit a certain price the bidding was shut down. The directors were seen loading the fur into their personal trucks. Maybe there was unethical stuff going on, maybe there wasn't. But it looked bad. MTA decided to cancel the auction there a few years later. There was always a lot of young trappers at that auction. My son got his start selling fur he trapped there. When there was no outlet for him he stopped trapping. I doubt those people are still running things at MTA, but I always remember that.
Later I discovered NAFA and I could drive to Perryville, drop my catch off and it was sold in Canada. No worries. My stuff either sold or it was held over if they didn't feel prices were fair. I never looked back. No need to drive halfway across the state. NAFA is all but gone but there are other ways to ship my fur.
I'd love to see multiple auctions here again, but it ain't gonna happen.

[bigjohn]

There are lots of buyers finding their own markets plus some trappers too. I know some trappers that have sold to furriers and manufactures . Anyone that finds that type market holds their lips tight. The taxidermy market got cheap pretty quick do to the amount of folks wanting to sell cheap.

One thing about the MTA auction is you can pull your fur if you don't like the bid, something you can't do with the Canada house.

Groneswald has their fur dressed then markets it so less risk for the end user.

I've seen a lot of fur that was brought to the auctions that was in very poor shape. Some of the animals shouldn't have even been skinned. Fur that wasn't at least dunked in the creek, then dried, and skinned. Some you could smell before it came through the doors.

[krank]

Yeah, I think I will spend time in the furshed this year but more towards the taxidermy and tanning. That will make me still feel like a mountain man just not trapping as much.
I got a deep freezer full of deerhides and a couple otters and a few coon and a few beaver and a buffler hide.

[segsarge]

When I first started trapping, I sold everything green. Learned how to put it up later. I screwed up some fur along the way but I got better. You can't take a skin that's off color or not prime and make it a top lot. But you can make it bring what it's worth.
I've only tanned a few items, just for myself. Being able to pull your fur off the table if you don't like the bid is a good thing. But it still doesn't address the problem of having only one auction at one location. Kids who are just starting out probably aren't going to have a pile of fur. Unless they have a relative or mentor who traps they don't have a way to travel across state to the only MTA sale. Majority will lose interest if they can't see a reward for their efforts. Alternative markets are fine, but if everyone is tight-lipped does it really help beginners?
The market is terrible right now. Keeping new trappers interested is just as important as introducing them them to it.

[krank]

When I was a kid, the grocery store bought fur.

You could mail your fur to St.Louis. Always got more than expected. Prouhet Fur .

Bud Keller had the best deal in Western Missouri. Everybody went to him and he was fair.

A person could buy fur in the round and finish it but not with these prices. It would never pay for the permit. These guys that riddle a yote full of bullets expect a price that is twice what finished would bring.