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Post by trkyslyr on Jun 1, 2014 10:13:19 GMT -6
nope, seen newborn chickens tho, and they're fluffy after they dry
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Post by tjm on Jun 2, 2014 10:16:01 GMT -6
Multiple start dates and multiple end dates seem a bit off to me, what to do with the mink caught in a muskrat set or otter caught in a beaver set? I asked the CO about the otter/beaver issue and his answer was "I can't tag them"; asked if they were to be reported or collected for study or or and each time the answer was "I can't tag them". I'd not ask for any of the seasons to be shortened at either end, if science indicates otter need protection during the beaver season, I can accept that. How ever, with the talk of bounties on otter and the number of nusience otter complaints they don't appear to be endangered; it seems wasteful not to keep them. Bobcat season to run longer? Great idea, I think, bobcat fur is reported to be better later in the season. Yet another single species season would create another issue of waste when other predators wander into a bobcat set. So I would like to see the general furbearer season run a bit longer in the spring, perhaps to the end of Feb. On the front end, an ealier start date by a week or three might allow some of the Frost zone folks a chance to do a little water trapping before ice up. I'm about as far south as I could be in Mo. and each year I eat a couple of coons for Thanksgiving dinner, have done for decades, and yet in all those early coon I have only seen one that was blue leathered and a few slate. Do coon need protection? Not that I am aware of. Old coon hunters tell me it's rare to take coon after Christmas round here. Maybe different where you are, thus some degree of descretion on the part of the trapper is warranted.
IMO, any one who advocates any shortening of seasons without scientific evidence to support his/her position is nothing more or less than an Anti-trapper.
Again trappers, like fishermen are not required to start on opening day, it is a do not start before date not a start on date. Fishing season has been open for awhile yet yesterday was the first day I have been to the creek.
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Post by robertw on Jun 2, 2014 16:21:52 GMT -6
One thing is for sure! The Missouri Trappers Association needs to NOT have any say in the season structure! They are the ones that voted to shorten it to start with! They also opposed abolishing the mandatory sale date!
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Post by bverboy on Jun 2, 2014 17:02:10 GMT -6
true, but new blood in there now, different mindset? hopefully.....
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Post by bigjohn on Jun 2, 2014 17:17:57 GMT -6
One thing is for sure! The Missouri Trappers Association needs to NOT have any say in the season structure! They are the ones that voted to shorten it to start with! They also opposed abolishing the mandatory sale date! Robert,it was voted on by members of the MTA,which is made up of Mo. trappers. I'd venture to say,if more members had known that it was going to be voted on,it might have had a different outcome. I really believe that such things should be somehow related to the members beforehand,to give them time to think about it.Hopefully ,now that we have a viable website,these kind of issues to be voted on will be brought to all the members attention instead of the few that chose to go to the meetings. With the high cost of travel these days,many are reluctant to spend the dollars to attend.
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Post by ozarkmountainman on Jun 2, 2014 18:44:43 GMT -6
Oh man... John, the members DID know. Most MO trappers didn't, and their apathy, indifference, ignorance etc. cost them. The vote was about the decision take the season back to the old length and it happened I believe at the '07 spring meeting. It passed because-
A. The furbuyers wanted the shorter season B. The furbuyers controlled the MTA C. Not enough folks cared/showed, etc.
The trappers of MO who heard about the decision went ballistic. Got real pissy even. So it was decided to vote on the issue again at the '07 Rondy in Cuba. What a meeting. The bickering went back and forth. Facts were misconstrued. Lies were spoken. Outlandish stuff. When the smoke cleared after the longest meeting in the history of the MTA, the vote AGAIN went the way of the furbuyer, because-
A. The furbuyers wanted it that way B. The furbuyers ran the MTA
The vote was very close. Very.
Main FACT is this-
The vote taken by the MTA was to represent the MO trapper so as to persuade the MDC's decision to not continue the trial longer season. The vote was NOT about actually making this happen. That was an MDC decision. Anyway, these decisions made by the MTA do not represent the MO trapper (a shame, but that's the way it is). They represent the feelings of about 1200-1500 Missouri trappers that comprise the membership of the MTA.
Wait. I'm wrong.
Most MTA decisions are based, at BEST, on about ten-percent of MTA trappers (whatever the number is that vote at any given meeting, usually WAY less than one-hundred folks)and NOT Missouri trappers. How so few folks can have such an impact on the laws that concern them... which is why I went to the MDC as an individual (albeit representing many MO trappers) to try to get the Fur Sale Date abolished. And thereby making me a hated individual (or at least intensely disliked) by most of the MTA brass (read: furBUYERS).
Anyway, the MTA is healthy in terms of members, at least for now. Record fur prices brought a bunch of folks new and old back to the fray. This would be a great time to break out of the old molds and do some new things, ESPECIALLY concerning issues like fur season lengths, BG submersion depths, etc. Will it happen, without influence from the furbuyers? I wonder. I hate to think that I'll have to go to Jeff City again to represent the wants of the MO trapper/predator hunter. But I can.
Look at me. I wrote a short story.
These are all facts, as far as I can remember. I've had a stoke since then and have forgotten details which I didn't care about anyhow.
Dale
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Post by bigjohn on Jun 2, 2014 21:34:54 GMT -6
Dale,I have to agree with some of your points.
Another thing to point out is that if that same meeting would have been held in mid or northern Mo.,I'll bet that vote would have went the other way.Like I said,not a whole lot of members are willing to make such a long drive,be it the cost,time ,or whatever.
If I remember correctly,the MDC sent out trapper surveys that year with the very question about the season length,so the decision wasn't based on the MTA vote alone.Wasn't near the number of permits sold that year as were the last 2.
The thing about trapping that differs from hunting or fishing,is that trapping is more complex ,as far as management of the other two.When you set the deer season,you are setting it for one animal.Same with turkey,rabbits,squirrels and so on.With trapping,a person is most times pursuing more than one species at the same time and with,at times,the same set.
Your correct about the apathy part on members though.Seems would rather bitch about something than be a part of changing it.But that seems to be the way most of todays sportsman are.If I hear of one more gripe about the deer management from those that don't attend the open meetings,I think I'll puke(and I don't even deer hunt).Can't change something by wishing it away.
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Post by robertw on Jun 2, 2014 22:37:45 GMT -6
As for lies from the MTA, no different than telling the membership last spring that the FTA wasn't going to support the lawsuit in Minnesota fighting for trappers rights.
You should have seen the crawfishing and squalling the year Rosa Cunningham used a tape recorder and recorded the meeting for the minutes when Joe Moser couldn't attend!
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Post by ozarkmountainman on Jun 3, 2014 6:15:07 GMT -6
I took a video camera to a meeting once. Didn't use it, but you should have seen the looks.
John, the MTA (furbuyers) at that time (in '07) had all the influence with the MDC. Simple. Not a conspiracy theory. I would like to think those days are over. I mean, the fact that the furbyuers have such a say.
The MTA needs to fight for what the trappers of Missouri want, not just the percentage that are members. If they would consistently do that one thing, the new members would come.
So, back to the subject at hand...
Dale
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Post by tjm on Jun 3, 2014 6:19:24 GMT -6
So, at the spring meeting just past I'm told the "membership" again voted not to ask for/discuss an extended bobcat season?
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Post by tjm on Jun 3, 2014 6:28:55 GMT -6
I've heard that the furbearer issues are mostly back-burner because deer and turkey etc. generate lots more P-R monies and therefore get more attention. Also heard that the current Commision is very apt to approve any proposal that allows increased opportunity...
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Post by ozarkmountainman on Jun 3, 2014 6:40:08 GMT -6
Don't know. I'd hoped with all the new blood in the MTA that things would happen. If all the new blood is just going to fall in-step...
Dale
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Post by bverboy on Jun 3, 2014 16:49:47 GMT -6
waddell, most of us missed out on them glory years... sounds like fun.. folks don't recognize the names(ie... Cunningham)
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Post by ozarkmountainman on Jun 3, 2014 17:30:52 GMT -6
That right there in itself is very, very sad. The fact that ya'll never got to meet Brian & Rosa Cunningham. Hmmm... wonder why they quit with the MTA stuff? They still come to Rondies, but that's about it. What a GREAT mystery.
Dale
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Post by krank on Jun 3, 2014 19:36:30 GMT -6
You know, always follow your gut. THese people that fight and oppose these issues arent concerned with baby beavers or fuzzy little bobcats. They are scared for their own personal agenda and the almighty $. Open up the season. It is just wrong to quit trapping on Jan 31st. Who cares? (furbuyers) A man ought to trap as long as fur is prime. If the MTA cant agree among themselves then stay away from the MDOC as I am sure they arent impressed by the adversion within the organization. Its kind of a no brainer but everybody is quick to throw up these imaginary roadblocks.
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Post by robertw on Jun 3, 2014 19:57:15 GMT -6
bverboy, The Cunninghams owned Hilltop Cage Shop and made live traps that were sold all through the midwest. Honest good working no BS people!! Busted their butts for the MTA only to continuously get crapped on by a bunch of back stabbers, mainly that NTA bunch in the MTA.
Just telling you straight.
Ever wonder where the money all of us made for the MTA over the years went? Take a hard look at the amount of money the MTA has given to the NTA and FBU in the last 20 years....99.2% of it pi$$ed down a rat hole in my opinion!
You talk of "new" blood in the MTA...evidently in my opinion there isn't enough new blood to give an honest report to the MTA membership concerning how their money isn't being used to defend trapping by the NTA in the Mountain Man news letter. Have you seen the "PIE Chart" put together by the NTA Director from Illinois for the NTA members and the affiliates reported in the Mountain Man news letter?
You might think none of this is important until you realise just how much of the Missouri Trappers Association treasury has been given away to the NTA over the last 20 years. It would be different if it had been used to defend trapping!
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Post by ozarkmountainman on Jun 3, 2014 20:04:10 GMT -6
The MTA has been pro-NTA and anti-FTA for so long that few can tell you how the feud even started. Like the Hatfields and McCoys.
The NTA numbers pretty plainly speak for themselves.
Anyway, back to more discussion on season lengths, body grip traps, etc.
Dale
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Post by robertw on Jun 3, 2014 20:07:47 GMT -6
If my post above sounds a little bitter, I'm sorry. I am bitter! I'm passionate about trappping and wildlife management. Until the Missouri Trappers Association cuts their ties with the NTA and rids it's self of this cancer we simply can not thrive in my opinion.
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Post by robertw on Jun 3, 2014 20:14:43 GMT -6
Dale, Look at last years NTA fianances. They took in around $650,000.00 they spent a whopping $5,000.00 helping the affiliates defend trapping. Basically .8% of there total budget.
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Post by tjm on Jun 3, 2014 20:23:31 GMT -6
so, new blood and old, MTA represents about 10% of Mo trappers and at any given meeting about 10% of MTA show up to vote? And MDC accepts this as representing all MO trappers?
Spring meeting attendees, bobcat season???
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